AstroLogic*Gal

Astro*Thoughts: Essential Dignities, Pluto in Virgo, Mars and Venus

I'm part of the Pluto in Virgo generation, with Pluto conjoin Uranus, my most elevated planet. Currently Sun and Venus in Virgo are lighting this up in good ways and bad. So I don't mean to be harsh although it may come across that way, especially to Venusians like my Mr. Others have noticed and yes, there is quite a large amount of sloppy astro out there driving the rest of the Pl/Vi a little crazy.

Via a convo kicked up by fellow Pl/Vi, Jon: Instead of just whining about it I'll say what would make me happy. More people taking into account the condition of the ruler when they write about signs. Less focus on aspects (especially separating). For example: Moon in Sag is not that 'optimistic' when ruler Jupiter is Rx in Taurus and heading towards Pluto. Venus sextile Mars is just not that 'friendly' when both planets are in sign of fall and each approaching maximum fall degree. Etc.
I'd like to 'correct' it haha. Instead of 'less focus on aspects,' what would be much better is a more nuanced discussion of aspects factoring in condition of planets and reception of the signs involved. Not all trines are harmonious and not all squares are challenging.

Pluto in Virgos as natural foods and berkenstocks-definitely some of that... health fanatics etc. I would say how it plays out depends on Mercury and term ruler. But there also can be a sharp critical streak!
Pluto IS harsh. Although many astrologers try to soften the difficulty of its aspects and point out the positive, I have not found the changes that positive and they are never easy.


Mollie: Look to the condition of the ruler. Venus and Mars may be dancing together in harmony right now with the sextile, but they're dancing to a rather somber tune with both in their fallen position.

Jon: Two planets in signs of fall interacting... does that help by temporarily giving them a break from their fall energy (ie Venus gets a taste of Cancer, Mars gets taste of Virgo); or is it just an interaction without much benefit and possible difficulties because both are in such a weakened state? Could be both... but just assuming that a sextile is going to be good, without factoring in that both planets are extremely weak right now, misses a lot of what is actually happening.
Pete: Excellent point about the Venus-Mars sextile from signs of their fall. You ask, in part.."...is it just an interaction without much benefit and possible difficulties because both are in such a weakened state?" My answer is yes, and I learned this after many years of doing horary. Two planets in good aspect but in signs of fall, especially without any reception between them, are like two drunks hanging onto each other as they stagger home. Neither one will fall over, but that's about it.

Ann: w Mars in Cancer, I have to giggle and cringe at your scenario thinking of the ways in which the Moon's placement would impact the drunken walk home.
A Pluto Tsquare natal Moon/Venus could bring cleansing changes -so definitely changes but they were more in the sense of losing mother figures, treachery through women at work and loving all hope of certain types of love. Pluto brings out the dark side of the sign and is usually a tough energy to deal with. Pluto is harsh, but it isn't all bad and with the outers, it is most important to consider the effects of sign. In Virgo, its warning sign should be "Beware: I will analyze you to death." Even sacred cows can develop cancer cells, and Pluto knows that surgery will save the patient. No one likes their sacred cows touched, so it is a good thing Pluto isn't trying to win popularity contests.

Pete: imagine if the Moon was in Scorpio: a trine with mutual reception. These two drunks would share their last bottle, and help each other home singing bawdy songs all the way- but truly helpful? Hardly, right? Now imagine the square from an Aries Moon. Still a M/R but here's a Moon that challenges that Cancer Mars and says "Come on, get up, move! Throw away that bottle you lush! Do you want to be a wino all your life?? I said MOVE soldier!!"

Ann: I was thinking the Moon is Scorpio might get them into trouble on the way home... but let's say it were in Taurus, I'd expect a more jovial walk... even w a fair amount of bragging probably about women going on


Jon: Yes your rulership points are valid, I get it and am familiar with that Frawley line. The one thing this doesn't factor in is the general nature of the planets. What I mean by this is: Venus aspects to Mars, regardless of aspect, ha...ve a chance of working out. Why do I say this? Because Venus/Mars contacts tend to be good in life. Just my 2c - or maybe that's my natal Venus Mars trine? Not sure. I've certainly had some positive experiences with women in the last couple days, not 'too critical.' If it were between planets both in fall that did not get along, like Jupiter in Cap square Sat in Aries as an example, that would definitely be very bad despite the fact that Saturn likes Cap.
In terms of the other Moon examples you give, I think a lot would depend on waxing / waning Moon because a waxing Moon would increase and a waning Moon would decrease. But generally Moon and Mars doesn't get along so well because Mars tends to stir up emotions too much to be comfortable. Again, my take.


Pete: I'm not entirely sure that Venus and Mars are all that friendly, after all they are of opposite natures: Mars is hot and dry while Venus is cool and moist, plus they each rule the detriment sign of the other. In my opinion they need help from sign placement to bring out the best in each other. If they're both exalted then the sextile will have a very positive effect. The opposition with both in detriment on the other hand might express itself in a totally immoral way. I do agree in general that the nature of the planets must always be factored in but I would never say "regardless of aspect", because aspects include signs and sign placement can make all the difference in how a planet expresses it's essential nature.

Jon: Well, observe what happens in life and then let me know. If you have an argument with a woman because she is too critical then you will be right. But if you have a pleasant interaction with a woman then think more about it. It is also possible that I am picking up on Venus into Virgo, term of Jupiter; and Mars in Cancer, term of Jupiter; which tends to bring out the better sides of the planets.
I know my comments are not orthodox traditional Western but there are concepts like this (not same) in Vedic. It is something I have learned from doing market stuff. Being in terms of Jupiter brings out the better side of the planets despite being in sign of fall. Not as bad as when they will be in terms of Saturn.


Sam: Mars and Venus are mutually neutral using the classic rules of Vedic astrology -which takes sign rulerships/planetary friendships to very nuanced levels.
For instance Mars/Mercury are mutually inimical...Jupiter/Venus,Sun/Saturn

Jon: I am very interested in this concept because I see it playing out in markets. Mercury definitely doesn't get along with Mars... regardless of aspect, even 'good' sign connections very often play out in a negative way.

Ann: it was my own Venus in poor dignity that helped me come up with that approach to visuals... despite it being in Aries. I've won awards for my art My Mercury being in Gemini has inspired me to play with many mediums but those awards have all come with art I do best requiring the use of 'martian' tools... woodwork on a jigsaw... glass work requiring 'cutters', 'breakers', 'grinders', torches and kilns.

posted by theShizzKnit @ 2:14 PM